0:01:56
-0:46:39
0:00:03: It is the middle ground between light and shadow between science and superstition and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is Time Enough podcast.
0:00:39: Hey, welcome to Time Enough Podcast. That's where we talk about episodes of the Twilight Zone and beyond this being an episode of the Twilight Zone that takes place in some kind of Beyond. It's, it's, it's a good life. I guess that's the right way to say it. It's, it's a good life. Hm.
0:01:00: I'm Matt here, there's Andrew. Hi, Andrew.
0:01:03: Hi, Matt.
0:01:05: What up all type of things, you know, just dealing with these, these really bad kids.
0:01:13: What? Down?
0:01:15: Um Yeah, this is one. It's like, uh I, I guess you could just go straight to the trivia on this sort of episode, don't you? Um It's like, so it's Time Magazine said it was the third best episode. I don't know if this is actually one. I mean, I like this one a lot, but I don't think it's actually my top five. I know. How do you before?
0:01:33: Why we just spill the beans to start with? And uh how are you on this episode. Where do you live?
0:01:39: Uh, you know, I really like the Twilight Zone, the movie version of this better.
0:01:44: Ok. That's interesting. I mean, I like that one. I like Joe Dante a lot. So it's, it's actually, it's good despite Joe Dante, what he tried to do with it, it's good. Despite I think Richard Madison was, uh, the one to adapt the original, um, like the, the story for screen and made a lot of changes I thought were really great.
0:02:06: Hm. Ok. Ok.
0:02:08: But let's uh, oh, I got a little echo there.
0:02:12: Now, we're good. Anyway, I'll go ahead and do the trivia on this original version. I guess you should start drying out your lips now if you want, because you have a book to read after that. I do, I hope people that listen to this show enjoy My Rod Sterling because if you don't enjoy my rod, you're not gonna, I mean, you're not gonna enjoy this episode.
0:02:33: Your brain is gonna explode. Like in scanners, a lot of my rod is gonna be in this episode.
0:02:39: Does Patrick mcgowan's brain explode and scanner is that him? I, you see the head exploding? So I don't think that was him.
0:02:46: Ok. I couldn't remember whose head. It actually explodes in that movie because it's been a while since I seen it.
0:02:51: But this is only one, the other scanner movies actually not to spoil it. But those actually have way more exploding heads. Well, they have to, don't they?
0:03:01: Yeah. Oh, two has two times. The exploding head. Three, no, two and three actually.
0:03:06: Cop.
0:03:07: Those are the really great ones. Ok.
0:03:11: No, I'm thinking of, I, I wanna talk about scanners but it's not the time to talk about scanners. Is it Cronenberg? That's, that's twilight zone stuff. We could, we could say that uh that um the little boy could scan people.
0:03:25: I'm sure this guy could scan people. Yeah, for sure. Original air date was November 3rd 1961.
0:03:32: The script is a sling here. You mentioned the later ones, Matheson, but this one is a sling. Uh but using a 1953 short story of the same title written by Jerome Bixby James Sheldon is in the midst of directing six episodes of the Twilight Zone. He also got some mash and 66 batman in his portfolio.
0:03:54: Bill Momi is fourth build but Anthony Freemont is the name you remember we saw Bill in long distance call. Of course, he was Will Robinson on Lost In Space and racked up some other genre credits on shows like Deep Space Nine and Babylon Five.
0:04:10: He appears in the two thousands iteration of the Twilight Zone playing Anthony Fremont. Once again, Mr Fremont was John Large. We've already seen him and perchance to dream and dust and he'll crop up a few years later as Dirty Harry's police chief Claris Lechman played Mrs Fremont a legendary actor. She appeared in the last picture show was a regular on the Mary Tyler Moore show and also appeared in the 2003 sequel to this episode with Bill Mooney.
0:04:41: Of course, I can't leave out her role as for all and young Frankenstein, I feel like I'm still, that's what I needed. Thank you.
0:04:53: It's because you've got the dry teeth, you can do that.
0:04:57: Courtyard Bound Dan was played by Don Kiefer. He showed up in Maudle iterations of death of a salesman and guested in 10 episodes of gun smoke. You'll also find him in the Twilight Zone precursor. The Time Element.
0:05:11: Alice Frost was Aunt Amy. She was part of Orson Welles Mercury Theater from the start and we've seen her before in the 16 millimeter shrine while she'd have a very long retirement. One of her last roles was on Buck Rogers in the 25th century.
0:05:28: Ok. This is an audio podcast. But if you are on youtube, you have actually seen Andrew drying his teeth for the past three minutes. So let her let her rip.
0:05:37: All right.
0:05:39: The night story on the twilight zone is somewhat unique and calls for a different kind of introduction.
0:05:46: This as you may recognize is a map of the United States and there's a little town there called Peaks on a given morning. Not too long ago, the rest of the world disappeared and Peaks was left all alone.
0:06:01: Its inhabitants were never sure whether the world was destroyed and only Pikesville left untouched or whether the village had somehow been taken away. They were on the other hand, sure of one thing, its cause a monster had arrived in the village just by using his mind, he took away the automobile, the electricity, the machines because they displeased him and he moved an entire community back into the dark ages just by using his name.
0:06:35: Now, I'd like to introduce you to some of the people in Pikesville, Ohio. This is Mr Fremont. It's in his farmhouse that the monster resides. This is Mrs Fremont. This is Aunt Amy who probably had more control over the monster in the beginning than almost anyone. One day she forgot she began to sing aloud. Now, the monster doesn't like singing. So his mind snapped at her. Turned you into the smiling vacant thing you're looking at now she sings no more. And you'll note that the people in Pikesville, Ohio have to smile. They have to think happy thoughts and say happy things because once displeased, the monster can wick him into a cornfield or change him into a grotesque walking horror.
0:07:24: This particular monster can read minds. You see, he knows every thought he can feel every emotion. Oh, yes. Did I forget something? Didn't I, I forgot to introduce you to the monster. This is the monster. His name is Anthony Friedman. He's six years old, the cute little boy face and blue guy eyes. When those eyes look at you, you better start thinking happy thoughts because the mind behind them is absolutely in charge. This is the twilight zone and that's how you bore the tower of terror. Right on, dude.
0:08:04: Uh Of course, if you're not following uh this is, this was the base prologue for the tower of terrorist stuff because they wanted Rod Sterling on the ride. Uh They wanted Rod Sterling to say a lot of stuff. This is a long one. So they brought in a, uh, widow approved actor to fill in a few of the changes. And that's, that's how you do this one or that one? Not this one, I guess this is, it's good life. This is, it's a good, ok. It came out better at that time.
0:08:30: Yeah, I had another thought. Oh, the other thing, um, the monster at the end of this book, the Grover book, I always thought the last page should be the monster. Is you?
0:08:44: Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Yeah.
0:08:47: So that kind of the mirror Grover is flipping out about you. You are about, did you, you could you give me back my arm?
0:08:57: Don't send me to the corn field near.
0:09:02: Oh, sorry.
0:09:03: I'm never coming back. Does Grover think happy thoughts or is he too neurotic?
0:09:08: Oh, God, it depends. Super Grover. Absolutely. He's sure of himself. Yeah. Regular Grover. No, he, he gets really worried about stuff. He's got, he's got anxiety for super. Grover crashes a lot though. I'm sure he gets anxious when he's crashing maybe last minute. A little bit of regret.
0:09:28: Yeah. Yeah. So, how long would Grover last? In peaks?
0:09:32: I guess he's like a dog. He'd go like the dog.
0:09:36: Yeah, he would get, um, Anthony would get really annoyed by him. It's real good that you exploded Grover's head. Anthony real good that you did that, or Elmo's head? I think Elmo would go first. I think, I don't know. What, how do six year olds hear about Elmo?
0:09:54: Mm. No, I mean, the thing is, it's gotta be 100% compliant and you won't get that from anything besides an adult and even that, you know, if you get drunk, forget it because in Japan I, I, well, I made you watch, it's, it's so kids love a man when they're in preschool. They hate when they're in elementary school and then they start ironically liking APA again in junior high school. So I've seen like high school girls with APA socks. Well, do socks. That's, that's the cute demon lady. The thing in, yeah, the thing is just sort of, they don't, they have to be able to understand that their very existence depends on being 100% compliant with anything Anthony wants and that's why he has no friends.
0:10:46: All of my friends are dead like that album cover. So, yeah, a little little Rocky Eric and no, it's Fred, I think it's Freddie Gauge. Uh, Rocky Ason 13th floor.
0:10:58: Oh. Right. Right. Yeah. It's just who sings people who died.
0:11:02: Oh, no, no, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about this weird motivational album, uh, called All of My Friends Are Dead. It shows a dude kneeling at a gravestone and it was like AAA vocal album, like, you know, spoken word album from the sixties or something.
0:11:18: It regularly appears on the worst album cover lists.
0:11:21: Um I mean, so this is a nice, I think kind of nice thing where it's like most of the ambiguous stuff is just like plastered over. Why is this town by itself? I don't really know, where is the rest of the world? I don't really know. Why does this kid have these powers there? He has them.
0:11:38: That's all that really matters.
0:11:40: It's true. But kind of my thing with this one is that I think, I think it's, it's, it's a, it kind of falls victim to a budgetary constraints because there's a lot of tell instead of show with that introduction, you know, and part of that the longest one ever.
0:11:59: Yeah. And, and it's because they had a lot of um like information that they needed to go ahead and give you.
0:12:07: Um And I don't know if there would have been time to tell that story, you know, to show all that.
0:12:14: But there's also a lot of kind of wheel spinning because it's got kind of one note to play through the whole episode. You know what I mean? And how many times do you need the adult actors going? Like that's real good before you kind of get it. You know.
0:12:30: Well, this certainly could not have been a season four hour long episode. That would have, no, it did, it did, it didn't need that either. It just, I, I think that prologue, unless you're really paying attention, um, it's either was any of it necessary at all. Although in a Rod Serling, one of his last interviews, he was intimating that he was actually working on a screenplay for a full length feature length version of this, not Twilight Zone, the movie, but this as a movie.
0:13:01: Yeah. No, I mean, um, and I could see that because you would need, I feel like this episode suffers from the fact that there's so much described at the beginning rather than shown and then what you are shown really pulls a lot of punches, particularly with the Jack In The Box thing I think would have been a, it's only kind of horrifying, you know, and it's a little confusing and I think they pulled back on really doing. I mean, that could have been one of the most frightening twilight zone images if they'd have shown the full entire Jack In the Box with that guy's head at the top. Well, you do get a quick shot of his head. Like twirling around, like, not on the shadow.
0:13:39: Yeah. But it's, I don't know, I, I feel it doesn't read maybe that's too much body horror for 1961 television. I mean, that was a pretty new, that was a pretty new concept at the time.
0:13:51: That's why I'm sure it was.
0:13:53: I mean, it could get a lot weirder in the, um, in the film version. Probably because of that. But then, you know, scanners again, you know, you can do more body horror.
0:14:03: Yeah. Yeah. No, a shot from even behind it where they had made up, um, you know, they show that shadow but instead of the shadow, if they would have just shown, um, the, you know, the, the, whatever they built in force perspective where everybody's kind of standing in front of it all freaking out and you see it from behind, I think would have been a better shot. I think that, that, yeah, I, I feel it's a little bit of a missed opportunity there. It, it's a little, the whole thing kind of feels, uh, like I wouldn't have been surprised if they would have rather something else been shown a little bit more explicit.
0:14:43: Yeah.
0:14:43: And, and just for some more monstress.
0:14:47: Um, you, we're both music obsessed. So I guess that that's pretty much a deal killer for any empathy with Anthony.
0:14:59: Um, well, it's like I, I, I was talking to a guy on the train a few years ago and I'm trying to make conversation. Yeah. What music do you like? He's like, I don't like music. I'm like, huh? Ok.
0:15:10: Was possible but I didn't, you just got rid of most of the things I'm gonna talk about, which, I don't know, that could be my personal problem. But, yeah.
0:15:18: No, I've never had someone, you know, it's, it's almost like I remember you said your De Deal Killers of the past was, uh, not liking Hendrix or the Muppets, right?
0:15:32: It's just not possible.
0:15:35: I mean, I just don't, you know what I mean? Uh, the Muppets aren't that popular in Japan because they're not like, quote unquote cute and even like Kawai Cute, you know. But for it to, oh, well, that's a cultural thing. I'm just, I just mean, you know, you see Kermit here and there. He, he still shows up on socks.
0:15:51: I'm just gonna say he should at least, you know, he, he's Cary adjacent, but I've not seen any, um, piggy socks. So that's too bad.
0:16:02: Yeah. No, I, I, I mean, yeah, so I, I just don't think, um, you know, in the case of this, it's, I mean, that part's funny. It reminds me of Lebowski who was like, I hate the Eagles man. Get out of my car.
0:16:18: Is Perry Como Rebel music.
0:16:21: No, this is, what would that be? Crooner music. Yeah, it is. It is. I just wrote Perry in my notes as Perry. Como is the auto music. At least it is in, um, in Peaks.
0:16:33: Yeah. Who knows? But that's a, that's an interesting moment, you know. He's like, it's a good thing you just, you know, wouldn't let him listen to that record. It's, I don't know, that stuff starts to get like a little stale, you know. And I think the, the, like you said, the episode needed a monster, some type of creature.
0:16:54: Uh, a little bit more of a demonstration of what the kid could do, you know, maybe hold off on that ball of scotch until you're not around the, the monster child, especially when there's like five of them left. Like just take, take it home, take a perry coma. It seems like if, if you're outside the ear shot, you can, I don't know, play a crank record of it.
0:17:15: It seemed like he was playing to listen. Well, they don't have electricity. So, but they, you know, it's 1961. They might still have some crank record players around.
0:17:22: Yeah, I mean, it's, they said a lot of the things were like, you know, gone backward in time, uh, for it, but it's, uh, I don't know. And also I think I've not rewatched it since being a parent, I don't think.
0:17:38: Um, and, and so my memory of it, my take on it now would probably be a lot different, you know.
0:17:46: Yeah, I'm thinking of, you know, kids I teach right. And like, if they did have omni omnipotent and, uh, is it omnipotent? I guess it's just tele telepathic mind reading more than being, knowing everything. So, but omnipotent for sure. Right. And, you know, I mean, of course you wouldn't trust any kid with it, but there are some kids, you would definitely trust less than others. Like the kids on Saturday mornings. I just refuse to come into my class. He's, the whole class is going to end up in corn field, you know?
0:18:15: Yeah.
0:18:17: Yeah. Yeah. No. And, and you know, it, but it is, I haven't read much about the, the origins of that original story as far as what inspired it.
0:18:28: But for me, I think it comes from probably somebody that either really, um, couldn't stand Children or was really frustrated with one in particular.
0:18:42: Ok.
0:18:43: Um, yeah. Yeah. I, I, I actually didn't read the story either. I, yes, enough of these are based on short stories, I guess I quit going back and looking at the original short stories. Yeah. But you know what I mean? Like knowing a little bit about why it was written to start with. That's, I think that's what I'm talking about.
0:18:59: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I guess when I was doing my research I was looking too much into, like, Bill Momi and stuff. Right.
0:19:05: And then chorus Leachman was like, oh, crap Doris Leachman's in here. That's wild. Ok.
0:19:10: Yeah. Yeah. And so, and they're one of those people that shows up in the twilight and, well, really? Ok. Sure.
0:19:16: Yeah. No, it's a pretty great cast and then they, they, um, and, and it needs that because there is a whole lot of tell instead of show.
0:19:26: No, I said a good alternate title for this would be lying through your teeth.
0:19:32: Yeah.
0:19:33: Yeah, because the, I, I think the thing to think about during it is how long would you be able to stand it before you snapped at that kid?
0:19:40: You know, you you were talking about the budget issues but there were a few details that are never mentioned. I don't know if you, I guess you did, you said you didn't watch particularly recently but uh I was noticing watching last night that um all the pictures are gone from the walls like the the shadows there, you can see where the frame was but the uh the pictures, every room has no pictures, just shadows of where they were.
0:20:05: So I was like, that's kind of weird. I mean, that's not mentioned, nobody says anything about that but uh it's just the detail that obviously that was some previous, you know, tantrum.
0:20:18: Yeah. Yeah. See for me it's just like why is there not a guy made of completely of poop? Why is there not um a giant transformer?
0:20:29: You know, he, he has, he has technology. That's what I don't get. I mean, most kids like music or at least some music. Um, I guess he likes the piano music a little, or at least we'll stand for the piano music. Um, yeah, it was almost like the whole soothing the savage beast.
0:20:44: But there's, he, he shut down the electricity. I'm like, what kid would kids don't like when the power goes out.
0:20:51: But that could be modern kids. Maybe the Children of the 1960 early sixties, maybe they are like, they want to be, I don't know, Tom Sawyer still, he was popular in the fifties at the Disney Show. I think it would be a, I think it would, you'd have to know a little bit more about this town and his upbringing prior to this event that we're with.
0:21:13: I, I did, um, this, I consider this good writing is exactly at the moment when I was like, why doesn't somebody just like pound the kid's head in when he's not looking? And then the guy is like, why doesn't somebody just pound the kid's head in right now? Yeah, there's, there's that great scene where the guy is like, just kind of coming unhinged, but you realize he's doing that so he can distract the kid so that one of these, you know, able bodied grownups behind him can finally, like just lay the guy out. You know, he's still a kid and he states very plainly how come none of you would do this? And he, in fact, he goes, I'm distracting him so you can do something to him. I mean, it's like he can't get any more clear. It's been disturbingly obvious.
0:21:58: It, kids don't understand things we learned that in the shelter. Right? When the twelve-year-old couldn't understand what a Conrad warning meant.
0:22:07: Ok. So, so true.
0:22:10: All right.
0:22:11: So, um, that's a lesson twice.
0:22:16: Your choice here is, would you rather lay out a kid who is definitely killing people, murdering whatever he is? It seems like the cornfield is just some kind of like metaphor for death. Really?
0:22:33: Um, but it's either that or you live the rest of your life hoping you don't slip up and piss him off. That's why I, I've, I've not heard particularly good things about the early two thousands Twilight Zone, but one of the highlights is supposed to be the sequel to this which brings back Billy and Claris Leachman and it's like he, you know, he's middle age now. He has a daughter who has the same powers as him. I haven't seen it yet. I mean, obviously I'm gonna watch it because I do this podcast. But, uh, that streaming somewhere. I, I, I've not, um, that, that's the big Bugaboo. That's the only show that I don't have like a firm grip on. I think it's on youtube though for the most part.
0:23:14: I'm pretty sure it's on youtube.
0:23:16: I don't, the, the eighties Twilight Zone and the, you know, all the, the in between. Really? Yeah. In between the, um, the original series and then the Peel series, um, those things don't pop up too often.
0:23:32: You know what I mean? Like, I've not been able to really, I, I don't think I've watched all of them and I certainly have not watched any more than once. I think you can on youtube. But I, I am prepared for this. So I have the eight set, which I, I watched a few when I got the DVD set, but now I'm like, I guess I should probably wait a few moments before I get to that.
0:23:55: So it's like a year and a half, I guess it's probably about when we get to that.
0:23:59: So something like that thinking long term here, I've got two pieces of uh modern um modern media that core that make that make me think of this one of which I'm sure you can just shout out or probably can just shout out modern media.
0:24:17: Yeah. Recent stuff.
0:24:20: OK. Sorry, I'm playing and now I'm playing my own mind games. Um Wan Division comes to mind. That's, that's the populist one, right. Oh, yes, yes. OK. Absolutely not Wan Division.
0:24:31: Yeah, especially those first couple episodes have a very similar vibe to this.
0:24:35: Um which were the ones I liked of those. I, I think people pretty much came down on that show on liking the first half better or liking the second half better. So I'm not a second half. Oh, were you? I was a hardcore first half guy. It was just like, you know, I couldn't, I didn't really get into it until I watched because the, the, the, the latter half really connected more to the film series I filmed.
0:24:59: Oh, no, I didn't, I was happy when I didn't know what was happening just like in here. Even though Rod gives you the exhibition ex tells you the story. Sorry, my brain just shattered. Thank you. Exhibition. That's what I was trying to say.
0:25:14: The wrong word.
0:25:16: I'm pretty sure speaking of a different kind of episode tonight.
0:25:25: Different twilight zone.
0:25:28: So, uh yeah, maybe that's where I like again, I this is not my top five to be honest, but maybe that's where I like it a little better because I do like that kind of absurdist uh vibe of this or those first couple uh wan divisions.
0:25:47: So, so what was the other thing you were thinking of? The other one is, is definitely more niche, but I'll bring it up because I'm in the middle of reading um Strange New Worlds novel, the, the High Country um which came out a couple of months ago. So I guess I'm soft plugging it. Uh But it's got a shuttle craft with, you know, the, the pike Spock. Um And number one um where this planet basically cancels out all technology and they crash Landers, communities from earth, communities from Balkan communities from other planets. But the, the minders of this planet have uh said your technology must stay exactly how it was when we took you. That's how we're saving you. And if two different communities are on a different level of technology, this one can use the technology, this one cannot.
0:26:37: And then if someone invents something, there's like this living fire thing that will come and consume it. So it's like, it's a little bit along the lines of, like, it won't kill you, it'll just destroy whatever you were making because they're not trying to kill you. So, they're a little nicer than Anthony in that way. They're not sending people to the cornfield, but they're definitely trying to keep them in a, a life of stasis which Anthony is also doing.
0:27:02: Yeah. Oh, God. You know, Republicans specifically in Florida would love to have that flame.
0:27:08: You know, they send it to Rey Creek, I guess. Yeah.
0:27:12: Yeah. No, he is critical race theory a thing we can burn.
0:27:21: Yeah. Actually I go, you know what? That's something, I don't know because I've been in Japan for the past 12 years exclusively. So I hear that thrown out, but I actually don't know what it means.
0:27:32: Oh, critical race theory. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I know that's a thing now but I feel like that was like, when I was last in the States was 2010 and I feel like it's been since then. It really, well, it seems like people talk about.
0:27:43: Yeah. No, it's, it's just teaching the history of, uh, you know, race in the United States, um, in a way that, uh, doesn't shield kids from the truth the way the old books did. Ok.
0:27:56: No, I, I guess for me see, I would just be like, I mean, teach yourself. Right. That's one of the things, one of the problems with Anthony here, he's clearly not teaching himself. He's resting on his Laurels because he's omnipotent. Right.
0:28:09: But, uh, if I want to learn about something historical and if I really want to know about it, I'll read five different books on it myself, you know.
0:28:16: So, um, I mean, I guess that's what you're trying to teach kids with, with that sort of thing is check a few different sources, you know.
0:28:25: Yeah, they, they just would prefer them all to be Fox News or Info Wars. Yeah. When there's, when there's a big news article I will look at, I'll look at C N L, look at BBC. I'll see what the Japanese press says. I'll look at Fox News. I'm just curious what everyone's saying about it. It's really interesting when one of the sites is basically not even reporting that news.
0:28:45: Yeah, for a while, uh, Al Jazeera was actually one of the better, uh, news sources because it was kind of really neutral.
0:28:54: Yeah. Yeah.
0:28:55: No, I mean, but, like, I'm from Atlanta, I know CNN probably has some serious bias problems these days. But still, like, here's a little window under at least what people are saying, you know, and then the Japanese news is relatively dis attached for foreign affairs. Right. So, I feel like that's not a bad place to get news. Um, no news in this town, I guess that's part of it. I mean, it's, it's just a, yeah, there's a moratorium on thinking there's a moratorium on news. There's a moratorium on technology, right?
0:29:23: And, uh, with, with horrible consequences. So, oh, oh, the last observation I wanted to make at least, um, one another obvious mat painting. I've just been noticing those more and more, which is because I'm watching them on Blu Ray. It's not the show's fault, it's the blu rays fault. Oh, no. Yeah.
0:29:44: Yeah.
0:29:45: Um, the other one I, I made a little note about was that, uh, I just saw it a moment ago and then I forgot what I was looking at.
0:29:57: Oh, yeah. Um, the, just watching films of dinosaurs fighting isn't the worst. I guess.
0:30:04: I, I watched the, no, it depends on if it's the same, like, you know, 20 seconds that we saw over and over again.
0:30:13: I mean, I've just been watching a sequence of dinosaurs fighting each other for like, um, you know, an hour to guess that could be cool maybe. But I guess it's always dinosaurs because he's six years old and he's an idiot. That's the thing. He's powerful but he's an idiot, you know.
0:30:28: Oh, no, that's the thing. He's not gonna get any more mature and he's not gonna grow empathy at all. Uh, he's, he's started to read, there's a sequel, I don't know. I was gonna say I can, I can find out but, you know, for the purposes of, of the one we're talking about, he's, I think they chose a great age because, um, you know, uh they say, well, you know, if a kid doesn't develop empathy, what does he become? He's just, you know, psycho and, but naturally they say to you, uh, kids think they're, I think he's like the natural ID of a child, right?
0:31:00: Of, of a terrible child.
0:31:02: Yeah. But, but still though it's like, you know, if never taught right from wrong and if never encouraged or if never like corrected, you know, because you gotta imagine like this kid has probably had a couple different moms and dads.
0:31:18: Like, what did you just say to me? Cornfield?
0:31:23: But I think, I think it's a debate that these are his actual parents because, um, when Ben starts flipping out one of his accusations is you two had this child?
0:31:31: Yeah, true, true. I'm thinking of the Twilight Zone movie one. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Where he's kind of changing out family members when he feels like it. Ok.
0:31:40: Yeah.
0:31:41: But, um, ok. Yeah, that, that could, that could be interesting. But, um, you know, this, this is a little new agey sounding but when I teach, especially kids six and under, there's definitely some kids where it's like, oh, this must be your first time here, or? Uh, this kid's been around the block a few times and kind of knows how to handle situations. You know, you know, the kid that just keeps throwing him or herself into a wall, you're gonna guess this, they, they don't seem to have a lot of experience with like, reality or life or whatever. Right. So, I mean, I don't care if they clean up and they're sitting there like, doing like the, um, anal or 10 of chef stuff, you know, after time, right? Like, you really don't need to do all that. I got, I got a little six year old, uh, where he's a little squirrely in class, but the whole class just runs out screaming and he'll stay there for two minutes and just rearrange all the chairs, which honestly I probably wouldn't have done, I would wait for the class to it and, and do it themselves, you know?
0:32:34: Right. I would say thank you, you know, whatever. But, uh, yeah, that's, that's not Anthony, uh, Anthony Fremont. Sorry. It's hard.
0:32:42: No, he's not O CD at all. I mean, he's, that's the thing I also thought about, you know, maybe the person who wrote this was thinking about, well, if parents just give a kid whatever it wants, you know, and don't ever say boo to him, what would he be like? You know? Right. Right.
0:33:00: And so I keep saying Anthony because, um, Jon Lovett's high school high terrible movie. The one good joke is that the one character's name is Anthony? Not Anthony.
0:33:09: Yeah, I have it on a Blu Ray with the movie Mo Money, which I really like, but I have not gone back into high school high. I, I remember that being the single good joke in it.
0:33:19: Anthony the kid. Yeah. Yeah, I can see Anthony's face but I can't remember anything else.
0:33:26: Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, I went to see high school. I'm sure I did.
0:33:31: Uh Well, let's go through the questions here. Um Who in this episode is in the Twilight Zone?
0:33:38: Where is the Twilight Zone in this episode?
0:33:41: Well, that, that you would have to kind of go back to that opening narration because he sort of addresses that in a way by saying, you know, is this by saying he doesn't know but yeah, by saying he doesn't know. No, you're not gonna get a, you'll never get a clear answer. But it's so, uh you can say that who went to the Twilight Zone? Well, the, everyone in the house, everyone in peaks is the Twilight Zone or is it the people on the corn field? Because there is the one version where this is the rest of reality and he actually did send the rest of the world to the cornfield.
0:34:18: Yeah, we'd have to know a little bit about more about this cornfield. And, um, because it may rock, you may, may just sent you to normal life and you'd be like, man, man, those people don't know. This is where it's at.
0:34:30: Yeah, that, that, yeah, it could be that sort of matrix thing. Right. So you gotta, oh, no, no, you don't die in the matrix to do that. But I mean, in flat liners, I don't know, you gotta, you gotta join the flat liners, right?
0:34:42: That worked out well. Right.
0:34:44: Oh Yeah. Oh God, great idea. Let's all do it.
0:34:47: Um Yeah, I think for this though, I tend to, every time we talk about who's going to the Twilight Zone, um we tend to think of uh someone where the Twilight zone, we tend to think of it as I feel like uh just like another, another kind of plane of reality and usually that the person that goes is the one who um deserves some sort of comeuppance or learned their lesson, you know, that's why there's no comment at the end of this one because nothing happened.
0:35:22: Yeah, exactly.
0:35:24: So, um I think, I think we can say that uh I wanna say that everybody's, everybody's in the twilight zone in this episode. I think the Real World is a completely separate thing.
0:35:40: Are you, are you willing to grant Anthony his humanity? Do we consider him a person that can go into the Twilight Zone movie version does, the movie version does for sure. Uh, no. Yeah. And I'm, um, I've just, I've seen Twilight Zone, the movie, I guess, maybe even more recently than I saw, um, the, uh, the original episode. But, um, yeah, I just, I just feel like this, this whole episode takes place, uh, in somewhere separate from the Real World. And therefore, I guess to me when we're talking about who goes to the Twilight Zone, we think of someone going away from where they are and normally that's reality.
0:36:29: Let's talk about who deserves what in this episode. Um, I guess we sort of just animated that Anthony is not getting anything he deserves. No, no, he's not. That's the whole point. That's why he's become a monster is because somebody should have whipped him or at least did some blunt force trauma from behind with, right. Remember that quote I sang from Bernie Mac, I believe when the kid gets one years old you're allowed to hit him in the throat or stomach.
0:36:57: Well, my response is up, Bernie is gonna end up in the cornfield. Yeah, he would end up in the cornfield. He'd, he'd go for, he'd take that elbow and, you know, as long as they're quick enough, he'd be, yeah, instead of Mr 3000, he'd be Mr Cornfield.
0:37:11: Um, is it, is it shorthand if I just say the re, most of the residents of this town are undeserving. They just happen to live in the wrong place.
0:37:20: No, I mean, everyone who's compliant, I think does deserve it.
0:37:25: Oh, ok. They deserve it because they're compliant. Ok? Because they were thrown into this absolutely nightmare situation without anything. They did. Probably.
0:37:35: No, it's true. But they are perpetuating. It are perpetuating. Ok. That's for sure.
0:37:43: But I really wanted to focus on, uh, Mr and Mrs Fremont, which, which the episode does, you know, peg to be his biological parents.
0:37:52: So, what, what is their level of deserving? Should we go really prude like they shouldn't have done it, man because now they have a kid.
0:38:00: Uh, no, I know it's not.
0:38:02: I was gonna say there's just we go, you know, the bad seed, you know, sometimes it's just a rotten egg or whatever. Um, but no, by an omnipotent egg, the potent seed.
0:38:16: Uh, I think, yeah, they're, they're probably the most guilty because we always go back to blaming the parents. Right? And so, um, the fact that they have not put something in his oval team, you know, not necessarily kill him, but, you know, just, uh, that's what happened to and Amy though because it's like, oh, she was the only one that could kind of talk to this kid until she finally started singing and I guess he liked her enough not to just send her away. But his effectively lobotomized her. I mean, she's like, basically senile now.
0:38:50: Yeah. Yeah. She just has very few moments where you're like, yeah, I can see why he did that to you because you stood up a little bit, you know, it's like he's not, remember she was the one to say he's not anywhere around. Why are we whispering about him?
0:39:03: I mean, Mr Fremont, when he's talking to Anthony's room, he seems a little, I mean, he's, he's trying to push just a touch of, you know, dad vibes with a little with extreme non prejudice. How, how do I say that? Ok, I know, I know what you mean.
0:39:21: Going around the tulips, you know.
0:39:22: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The people listening to this will know what you mean.
0:39:26: But no, I, I would say they're uh they're, yeah, they're, they're probably just as culpable I would say uh where do you, where do you want to throw this one on a trip, a meter?
0:39:39: Oh gosh, this is high on a trip, a meter for me.
0:39:42: I would say, yeah, this, this could be one of the, I would say maybe even a four um four or five because it's just, it's asking, it's, it is setting a wild concept right in your lap. You know, there's no like snap ending for it. There's no like, oh dude, things just got weird or holy crap. Like those, those, the ending twilight zone is known for this one is, it's, it doesn't seem like it's happening in reality to me, you know, this is a, this is a one big metaphor for something the author is trying to communicate. Um It, you can't take it literally because it's too out there of a concept. And there is no, I don't think, yeah, there's no explanation for what's happening.
0:40:30: So, um I think it's, I, yeah, I would say it's a, yeah, it's, it's a four or even a five. OK. I'm actually gonna go to five using what I believe is your rubric, uh which is you, I think you said in the past is Trippi when you just, you can't see how these people will go on and this is like maybe the strongest version of that we've seen thus far in the show. Like you're like, how is this even gonna continue?
0:40:58: Right? The fact that it, it even got there is kind of mind blowing. So, yeah, OK, we'll say five.
0:41:04: OK. I mean, I don't have to. So like I said, as terms of quality, I think it's maybe just a slight bit overrated with um is holding the actors to not to that statement because the acting is across the board great in this. But even if like you said, it might be a little one note that's, that would actually be Rod Serling's fault, right?
0:41:25: Yeah. And, but I, you know, I would also say that, you know, there may have been, you know, Sterling was fighting with a lot and uh it just might have been impossible to show all the things that one would need to know that would make this a bit more of a fleshed out story. Um, I, I'm not, I'm not saying it's bad by any means. I think it's a very, very, very good episode. May maybe a top 10, for sure. Just not my top five.
0:41:47: Yeah. I just think that when you go with an introduction that long you're basically might as well have a narrator through the whole thing.
0:41:55: Yeah, I guess maybe, maybe I have some power of terror love for that as well. So yeah, just a little like um hand holding because I don't think like I can remember thinking why even have that, you know, because this is the situation you, I don't, I don't think you need to even tell that much.
0:42:17: You might be correct. That would have made it a lot more abstract, but that might be a real plus. So, yeah.
0:42:23: Yeah. No, that's, I mean, it's just, we're just, you know, farting around with it. But uh yeah, I would say it's pretty high on the trip a meter for me because yeah, it's just a doomsday scenario.
0:42:35: I mean, there's just, I mean, you're like, he's, he's gonna send everybody to the cornfield, he's gonna be alone. He's gonna have to make um and for those of you screaming at their, their phones because of the sequel, we're, we're not as you said, we're not considering that. So I haven't seen it. I haven't either. I don't know what happens. That's why I'm like, we might be, yeah, what we're saying might be totally contradictory about that. But, uh yeah, we're gonna be curious for the purposes of the, what this person wrote and the story it was based on.
0:43:07: Yeah, we're not jumping timelines here because we actually can't so good for us. That's true. Uh Speaking of timelines, it is like late April, early May, I can't quite remember. So I don't know what's, what's up in your May, what's up your May May. Um Well, Gonza uh is uh the, the filmmaking collective that my friends and I have here in Athens, Georgia.
0:43:30: Uh You can visit us at uh gonzo dot com, G O N Z O R I F F IC dot com. And uh right now, uh and you said it was early May, I don't have my paper in front of me, but something like that. Yes. Yeah. Uh In, in May, we're still um I'm still working on my book and I think the book is gonna be called everybody's and it's about uh body image um in middle age and it's so it's nude photography and a series of interviews with people about the way that the relationship with their body changes over time.
0:44:07: Yeah, I've watched my pages shrivel up over the past year. It's kind of exciting shrivel up um As for this, it's time enough podcast. It's time enough pod on Twitter and Facebook.
0:44:21: Look for us another podcast at Patreon under the title podcast podcast.
0:44:28: Drop us a dime if you're willing, you get episodes early of this and other shows that being films and filth the Citizen Kane of podcasting where you look at the 100 best and the 100 worst films as rated by arbitrary internet movie database Raiders.
0:44:48: That, yeah. Ok. I caught Disney talk about the weird side of Disney films.
0:44:54: I think I have another podcast and yeah, there's some video game ones, Lula Pokemon, um, talking about Pokemon high rule field report is about Zelda and the game game show as people game each other about Games. Andrew and I and other regular host, Mark Gamed each other, which would now be a few weeks ago. So go listen to that. I think it's the April 6th episode of the game game show. Uh, you can get into that. Ok.
0:45:24: I'm gonna go off into the rice field and I'm sending you to the cornfield.
0:45:30: All right. I'll be over there with Malakai and everybody else. The one with the, the orange beard radio.