0:00:03: it is the middle ground between light and shadow between science and superstition and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge.

0:00:14: This is time enough podcast.

0:00:40: Hello, Welcome to time enough podcast as always. This is matt here.

0:00:46: Returning back is mike richards from the mission log Orville podcast. Audi howdy. How are you sir? Pretty good. Pretty cold. I got my space heater so that's good. Um, it's been 11 months since I left. Ohio. So this warm desert air feels good to me. Yeah, not, not like Death Valley. And uh, sorry, I'm looking at the order. Okay. You'll be hearing me talking more about Death Valley next week. But basically I say, as we're going to see in today's episode, um, I feel like Death Valley is a very comfortable place because the only time I've been there, it was like january 2nd third. So it's like a, it's nice here. Yeah. Nice, stark landscapes. The temperature is perfect. Which you don't really think about with uh, with a place like Death Valley.

0:01:35: Have you, have you hung out, have you hung out in the valley? The hot valley. I, I have not. When I was a kid, we did this cross country camping trip, we actually did two of them. But one of them, we loaded up the uh, the Pontiac executive safari station wagon, 1969 vintage. And when it came time to drive across the desert, we did that at night kind of, we made that an all night or to take advantage of the cooler temperatures. So that uh Big Pontiac 400 engine wouldn't overheat, loaded up with seven people and a month's worth of supplies. I think I got a word about or two about that traveling at night next week as well. But that's next week. This week another desert episode is 100 yards over the RM.

0:02:24: I don't know why this crew kept punishing themselves by going into into the valley, but that's I guess how they rolled. So I'll dish out a touch of the trivia here.

0:02:34: The original air date was april 7th, 1961 script as a serling and buzz kulik directed as we've noted before, collects main claim to fame is directing several episodes of the Twilight zone, christian horn is played by Cliff Robertson.

0:02:52: Sure he won an Oscar for the film charlie and played JFK in the movie Pt 109.

0:02:58: But he's always going to be the Uncle Ben to our peter parker's since he took on that role in the first Raimi Spiderman film, dying quickly as Uncle Ben does. But hey, it's just something you got to do when your Uncle Ben, you know what you're getting in for, When you, when you uh take that role quick, quick aside. Have you seen the movie Hollywood shuffle. Directed by robert Townsend.

0:03:25: Is that the one with the um Richard Pryor.

0:03:29: No, he's not in that. This is lower budget. Um, it was robert Townsend starting out his career, but it's, it's him like kind of semi auto biographic lee um Talking about being a young black actor in Hollywood and there's a scene where he goes and talks to the kind of Eddie Murphy style sitcom star. How do you know if the script is good or not? Because he thinks maybe the script he's about take on is like kind of racist and the guy says, does your character die in the script? He's like, no, then it is a good script.

0:04:03: So yeah, they didn't ask that to Cliff Robertson clearly for Uncle Ben, but maybe for this episode they did, he makes it through this episode, spoiler alert for something you probably should have watched. If you're listening john Crawford with gas station joe and his other work around this time point us to some Gunsmoke episodes in the 19 seventies. He'd get his face on film alongside Gene Hackman in 1975. Night moves and Clint Eastwood in the following years.

0:04:34: The enforcer.

0:04:35: And yes, that is one of the Dirty Harry Sequels.

0:04:39: And I can also point out if you don't mind some Star trek. Uh Star trek appearance as well on Galileo seven, he was the Macguffin that was causing Kirk to have to abandon the search for Spock at all um to do some other thing on the bridge, being kind of the do she um you know, delegate from the federation. Um and that was his role played by john Crawford Commissioner ferris Commissioner. Okay, I was thinking it was an ambassador, but it's like bad rules and ambassadors and star trek, you can't trust. Right, correct. 100% correct.

0:05:19: Oh, sorry, my screen's just flipped because that last podcast did just finish. Ok, sorry, that's neither here nor there, mary lou is played by uh Evans Evans. That's right, So nice. She got it twice.

0:05:36: She did a bit of Alfred Hitchcock television, played Velma Davis and Bonnie and Clyde and was married to director John Frankenheimer from 1963 until his passing. And I think 2002 or 2003, I didn't actually write that date.

0:05:53: John Aston's role is charlie. Maybe a bit on the small side here, but he'd secure his place in the pop culture zeitgeist of years later as Gomez Adams on the Adams family and I just came across this when we were doing, when we were covering the episode Blood of Patriots on um guest starring Mackenzie Aston who played the, the main guest star on that show. That is a son of john Aston as is Sean Aston, a K.A. The Fat Hobbit and Rudy and uh so many other roles that we've seen him in 51st dates, uh the steroid taking bodybuilder. So yeah, john john Aston actually has quite a few offspring as well in the industry Acting family. Yeah, Mike, I'm gonna throw the prologue on the board for you. So if you could give us a read, The year is 1847.

0:06:58: The place is the territory of New Mexico.

0:07:01: The people are a tiny handful of men and women with a dream.

0:07:05: 11 months ago they started from Ohio and headed west.

0:07:10: Someone told them about a place called California, about a warm sun and a blue sky about rich land and fresh air and at this moment, almost a year later they've seen nothing but cold, heat exhaustion, hunger and sickness.

0:07:28: This man's name is christian Horn.

0:07:32: He's a he has a dying eight year old son and a heartsick wife and he's the only one remaining who has even a fragment of the dream left.

0:07:43: Mr chris Horn was going over the top of a rim to look for water and sustenance and in a moment we'll move into the twilight zone.

0:07:54: All right.

0:07:56: I guess we should start a little bit with the premise and how you think it plays out here. The twilight zone very clearly has a few episodes with a time machine and then a lot of episodes was just unexplained weird time travel. Um I guess the last episode you are on the odyssey of Flight 33 is kind of somewhere in between because they kind of have an explanation but not really. And here it's just weird.

0:08:23: Yeah, so I mean there I think it was you know the dawn of you know jet transportation and high speeds, high altitude jet stream breaking things like the time barrier uh may have been you know uh sort of you know in people's imagination at the time. So I guess the Boeing seven oh seven itself may have been the time machine. This one was just um this one seemed like it was just sort of the universe wanting to bring this guy forward in time 100 and 14 years. For for whatever reason matt, we don't know until we get into the plot, but for whatever reason he was, he was brought forward in time 100 and 14 years. Yeah, right. I mean there's the, you know from 2022 you just hold up the card that says quantum on it. Right, okay. Sure that everything is possible now. So and they would just say is it possible those high tension wires caused a quantum field around this paved road?

0:09:23: Yes, Yes matt. That's possible. They would I feel like a modern show would feel the need to make that explanation though. You couldn't just he just pops into the past which is an interesting cultural thing because you know, I guess mark twain is you know, his time travel is basically just like walk around the corner being in the past right? And in the early 60s that was still kind of fine. So yeah, now now you can't really do that.

0:09:52: Yeah, I think so. I think I think you're right. I think you need the quantum explanation now um totally Yeah, but this one this one not so much. Just, you know, you go 100 yards across the rim and uh there you are just as the modern viewer is that is that annoying? Because I feel like when I started doing the twilight zone, like real focus and the first time travel is walking distance and I just walked over there now. It's the past. That's kind of weird. So now I've seen it like five times and I'm like, yeah, sure. That's what twilight zone does. It's fine.

0:10:30: It does. I think, I think it's I think it is fine. I really, really do. Um, I don't need an explanation. I didn't need, I don't need everything to be explained to me. It's something um, you know, my son and I were talking about with, with other members of the family. Uh, not about this, but I think it was about a different film. Can't put my finger on it right now. But at the end of it, you know, questions came up from uh, from others. He goes, you know, I just don't need to have everything explained to me. And I was like, good for you kid. Good for you.

0:11:04: A little bit of an abstract brush. I I appreciate. So that's pretty good. Um, the other one I think this is very specific people of my vintage. The first thing we think is that this boy is gonna die of dysentery because we have been playing the Oregon trail on the apple two computers in the elementary school libraries, which I spent a lot of time with that. So that was like even now like thinking about this sort of thing, that is kind of like my main point of reference, I will immediately flashback to like, you know, green screen, right trail. Yeah. So dysentery cholera I think was a big one, you know, any, any kind of, um, you know, any sort of, you know, mixing, you know, gray water and dirty water and, and clean water, which was, which was tough to keep sorted out I guess at that point. Um, as well as I think malaria and definitely in that part of the country is probably not a big deal.

0:12:09: That was definitely more, you know, I don't know that there's not a lot of mosquitoes in the desert. That's more human. Central America is definitely going to get you. Yeah, maybe once you start getting to the coast, I, there's some mediterranean climate up there, which might, you know, there's definitely some gnarly bugs. I'm not sure. It's just yellow fever. Yellow fever isn't that one. That was, I definitely think it is. Um, but man, I really liked the look of the, of the settlers of the, of the frontier folks. Um, and that came directly from cliff Robertson.

0:12:48: He was uh, did some research for the part, um, made about nine pages of background for his character that he gave to the director and he said, look folks that were doing this weren't dressed like cowboys. They left Ohio, they left new york, they left pennsylvania with the clothes on their back, you know? And he was wearing, he had a top hat and tails because he did, that was awesome. But it was but it was a formal hat, you know, and he he wore it because he needed it for protection from the sun and it was all he had. Um so it's an interesting choice that that's what they wore, but he was wearing that, that, you know, kind of formal wear um because whatever happened that made them leave, Ohio, that's what they had to wear and they couldn't afford to buy, you know, a cowboy hat and chaps and spurs and boots and you know, all the other stuff that you know that you know, modern modern day cao cao folk get when they're uh you know, going out to line dance on saturday night.

0:13:49: Well, I just started reading a book, I'm only maybe three or four chapters in which is um cattle kingdom, I believe the name. And that's mostly talking about driving all of the longhorn out of texas. Um so, but those guys would get outfitted, You get hired by the ranch, they give you a few basics and a horse. I think it said every like proper cowboy need like seven horses or something. Yeah, didn't garth brooks played an album called that, I don't know anyway uh Yeah, but even with that these guys just kept sustaining just like the most like brutal nasty injuries, you know, losing an arm was barely a thing, it's just like, you know, wild stuff. So these guys are like even less outfitted in in the middle of the desert now. So yeah, I mean they were literally like putting, you know, you know, taking their life into their, you know, hands to to make this journey and start completely over. Um you know, the other thing that was interesting I thought was and if you've seen cliff Robertson and other things and he's kind of been a favorite of mine for for decades.

0:14:57: Um He first came onto my radar, he played a part in a film called the pilot where he played an airline pilot. He was you know, hiding his alcoholism and um you know that was that was a really good film about 1980 if I remember right. Um And before that he was in a film with jane fonda called a sunday in new york where he's a T.W. A pilot. His sister comes to visit him um and she gets uh courted by several people including Rod Taylor. So it's just just a kind of a fun, you know, very early sixties um Very much of the time period, very early in jane fonda's career. So um I really really like cliff Robertson but he had kind of a very mild irish accent in this and that was his idea to he, in his background story, he thought he would be like maybe second generation irish, so he had just sort of a very minor, very mild irish brogue that he, that he carried through his acting and I thought that was, that was pretty neat.

0:16:04: Also, like I think his prep did pay through um because the first time watching this, I really was like this really does seem like a guy who's just gotten, you know, like weirdly unstuck from time and a lot of time travel, people go to the new time period and you know, kind of just start playing the game as soon as they get there, where this guy is christian Horn is like, what's he's really kind of flipping out like calmly, He is a very, he's a stoic man, he's not flipping out like marty in walking distance, in every way, possibly he is keeping his cards close to the chest whatever, but you can kind of see in his eyes like what is happening, you know, really, really trying to assess and, and I I think, you know, we might as well talk about it now right here, but, but Edward Platt, you know the chief from get smart um when he, you know, after the examination, he said no, he's incredibly rational, he's in, you know, he, he is, you know in command of his faculties.

0:17:06: Um you know, whatever is going on with him, he believes it and he can he has better recall of his, you know, I think as he put his imaginary life than we have, you know, of our real ones. So I think he did play it as, you know, very, very rational and probably a very realistic manner that if you know, a real person was put into this completely unfamiliar scenario, then you would probably just take a beat and look around and try to accept us what your surroundings were, you know, before um you know, going uh you know, going nuts over it. And I think I think that really, really showed with Cliff Robertson's acting.

0:17:51: I am wondering though, if we had someone Just suddenly walk in from 1920, would we think they were because of changing ways of social thought? Would we think they were rational? Well, I I think, if you know, if they were dressed um you know, in that way, which you know whatever fashions come and go, you know, I mean, Swing dance was a thing a few years ago, a couple of decades ago anyway, made a minor comeback. Um So somebody comes in in a zoot suit or you know, whatever they wore, it probably raised an eyebrow. Um But if they were asking about things like um you know, what kind of cars are these or what's what's that device you're using and um what's that thing you're talking on And I think it would I think it would be just as shocking Um to somebody from 1920 to say 2023. But it's I think without electricity, without power without cars um without roads um without those, you know power lines and the and the you know the the guides that hold the lines.

0:18:59: Um I think I tend to feel like it would be a bigger shock for christian horn going forward that period of time than it would be somebody going forward for the last 100 years.

0:19:13: I just I don't know but I feel like that's a bigger gap in history.

0:19:18: Of course then if he was saying going from 1760 to 1860 that would probably not except for the fact that he's in the desert. That might be weird. But yeah.

0:19:29: Yeah. I feel like technology wise there wouldn't be too big a leap there. What would you get clocks? You can put on sailing ships, better sailing ships. Yeah railroad railroad be the big one. Like if he if he saw locomotive there out in the desert that would be uh that would be a big big one. Um Hey can you, I'm just looking at your notes, can you talk to me a little about divining rods because the guy goes hey it was Gomez Adams a K. John Astin's character that said hey what are you gonna do? Find water? You gonna use a divining rod and I think that's worked for people for you know time memorial in the U.K. Especially in the countryside. There's like I think there's like dividing societies and things. The idea being um you have this I guess I mean I've never tried dividing myself but your walking around with a metal rod and it's when you're near water like I again it's it's pseudoscience or mysticism, you know somewhere in there.

0:20:31: But I think the idea is maybe like the water and use kind of attracted to and you're pointing it down or something like that. I've heard people talk about ley lines and divining rods so um I'm gonna understand it's it's like a y shaped um you know stick normally is what they would use. Um But I guess it could be made out of metal and that would bring that mag magnetism in there also and you kind of hold on to the to you know fork dens, you know with the other part pointing up and then when you come across water it'll swing down and sort of you know point to the ground is is the idea of what I remember reading about it a long time ago. Yeah I mean the fact is if it works it works right. So yeah if you're finding water you did a you did a good job but um Exactly? Gomez who cares as long as I find it granted I guess if you're in the middle of, you know, Death Valley or Owens Valley, you're probably, it's, it's like being the middle of the pacific and looking for land, right?

0:21:30: Yeah, yeah, exactly. How you gonna find it in the english countryside? There's a fair chance within a five minute walk you'll hit a nice source of water where? That's not the case here, That is your right. That is not the case here. And just because something works, doesn't mean it's scientific or repeatable or you know, based based in science, maybe it needs to work in a place that has water because the, I don't think anyone is claiming it's making water. It's just, you know, finding it. Right? So yeah, exactly. Just, just finding it. Um, that's uh, that's funny. So the first thing I was thinking when that truck was coming at him, um, was in the other lane, man, what should jump out of the road for. But then I realized that, you know, it's probably, he was probably taken back, taken aback a little bit by the, uh, by the truck coming at him. Yeah. You have a deer in the headlights moment, right?

0:22:27: Yeah. So, um, I'm thinking my similar situation. Oh yeah, a few years ago, typhoon knocked out the trains. So I couldn't take the last two stops every time I went to work or came home, I'd have to walk the like four miles or so. Um, so to make it shorter since there's no trains, I started using the train track. But yeah, the night before they started running again, there was a train and I had to excited, excitingly jump out of the way into a ditch. That was fun. I mean, I'm not being sarcastic, that was Okay, well, it's a good thing. You didn't have a, you know, a rifle from, you know, I guess, I guess they said it was one year old. So I guess that rifle is probably from 1846. Uh, you didn't have one of those, you know, carrying across your, that you, that you would have shot yourself in the, also I knew they might be testing trains at night and I, and it's very straight. So I, it wasn't like, it wasn't a total surprise, like I knew that would happen. I was ready for it. So that's probably why it was fun.

0:23:29: There's no bridges or anything to speak of. So I didn't have, you know, if there were bridges, I wouldn't have done that because yeah, but something image wise, especially coming from the old west vibe to seeing the power lines and things. Are you familiar with? I put in my notes that the film koyaanisqatsi, I saw that you were going to bring that up and I went to take a peek at it and I think I went as far as Googling the name, but I was, it was so like outside of anything I was familiar with, I just thought I would let you explain it to me and everybody else. It's directed by a former or maybe current, remember catholic monk. So it's a very meditative piece. Um it's it's technically a documentary, but there's no characters, there's no talking. Uh it's just a score by Philip glass um 11 of his better ones. Uh but it's it's a Hopi word meaning life out of balance.

0:24:30: So the movie starts by showing like cave paintings and stark shots of the american west and rivers. You know, time lapse photography, really amazing photography. And then as the movie goes, you start to see Western civilization come in. So they'll have like shots of these power towers, you know, where like, and that's where it's a similar shot in this episode of the twilight zone where they do seem like monsters invading the landscape. And as the movie goes on, it starts to show more of like new york city. This is where you see the first, uh you know, not first time they did this, but really famous shots of, you know, like time lapse city movement subways. The idea of being like all these machines and stuff like are encroaching on us and then you know, of course moving and start showing like the military and stuff. So it's it's it's, you could say it's bonk bonk on the head, but it's kind of not because there's no words dialogue or anything like that. So yeah, so you take from it whatever you uh, whatever you brought with you kind of Yeah and um It's, it's got a couple of Sequels, there's a palace Qazi, which looks at developing nations and then 20 years later there's one quota, I don't now quote Qazi, I can't remember quite what it was.

0:25:46: Um movie wise, it was probably the least of the three, but it had the best score still Philip glass with, with yo yo ma playing solo. So the score for that, that was just amazing. But uh anyway, Going from, I mean, I guess 1860s um settlers are not necessarily like prehistoric or anything, but I feel like we're kind of seeing a similar jump in technology and having to see christian's reaction to it. Whereas in koyaanisqatsi, you're supposed to delve in nature for a while and then respond to all of this technology. Uh just just imagine if he, you know, across the ridge was um, you know, phoenix, they mentioned phoenix not being too far away. I mean, that would have been, that would have blown them. Um you know, probably blown them clear out of the water. But you know, just, just the sort of, that, you know, the power lines, the pavement, the truck, that, that very kind of simple cafe um you know, was enough and you know, what do you need, you know, you needed to find out where there was water which he did came right out of the tap at the cafe.

0:26:56: Um But also there was a there was a natural spring that he could go back and find um find out where there's some food that he could get to feed the the group and he got medicine for his son. He didn't even know he'd need penicillin. Yeah so so what he got was exactly what what he needed. Now let me ask you this because I don't know the answer to this is penicillin used to treat pneumonia would be antibacterial. So but they're not entirely sure what's wrong with your boy. They don't really have like a proper doctor.

0:27:31: Yeah but I figured the chief would probably know.

0:27:34: Yeah maybe I was just kind of thinking like because they they when he looks in the encyclopedia turns out like his son pioneers this kind of medicine, right?

0:27:45: So we have like the maybe that's why the universe is doing this to straighten out the paradox.

0:27:53: You know? I think the universe is well I mean the universe is doing this to me, it's kind of weird. I mean it's definitely a chicken or the egg and paradox thing but um you know this is a kiddo who grows up to do great things and you know, I think it's the universe making sure that kid gets to grow up to do those great things. Um I don't know that it's necessarily fixing a problem, You know, fixing something that wasn't supposed to happen. I think it's just the universe protecting you know, christian Horn JR too a baby doctor john yeah, now christian Horn Senior though knows his son's death date. That's kind of trippy.

0:28:36: That is kind of trippy. And then you also wonder like how like how much pressure is christian Horn scene you're going to put on the young lad going forward. Like no, you have to go to medical school, you have to be a doctor, you have to go on, you have to do your studies and I think that's a much stronger broken, but I want to be a dentist. You're not going to be a dentist, you're gonna be a child medicine, childhood disease specialist, pediatrician. There we go. Sorry. Some moments just yelling that at the podcast at the moment just call it what it is, Captain Mike.

0:29:13: Right. Too funny.

0:29:16: Oh, coffee and donuts only 20 cents. That's awesome. So I was wondering if that was good or bad. Like I saw that apple pie, 15 cent thing over the jukebox and I was like, I wonder if he's gonna be like, and the prices in here are are out of control 15 cents for a slice of pie. I could buy a whole bakery for that where I came from. Oh yeah, I'm thinking about in the wrong direction, aren't I? Yeah, I mean it sounds great to us. I don't know. So how much would you know, I mean he's probably used to, you know, a slice of pie being being a penny or two, maybe back in 1847 as he put it. You're paying greenbacks and I guess, I don't know, I guess just, you know, just thump your gold up on the table, I need an apple pie, a room bottle of whiskey.

0:30:01: The way money works then is kind of um, confusing to us, you know, because we're on like fiat and all that and we assume that's how things are um, getting just one more known that cattle book. I was reading one of the reasons texas did all of this completely backbreaking work to move all these cows and become rich off of it for a while at least is because all of your savings in confederate money were worthless. So everybody was suddenly, you know, like, right, so if you're rich, you're, you know, get back to what terra Scarlett O'hara, that's her problem. Right? Right, so texas solution was, we're going to do this backbreaking work. There's some, you know, like just like firefly, right? You get the old rebels to come out and do this hard work because they have nothing else to do. So yeah, again, this is a little different here as they're they seem to be immigrants, you know, immigrating further from Ohio out west, but yeah.

0:31:09: Um, and you know, one of the things that he was as uh as chris was trying to assess the current situation? You know? Yes. Well what about what about indians and uh you know joe and and his wife both look at each other and go there. Not much of a problem anymore. You know, wink, wink, nod and I was just like, oh guys, come on. Yeah, sorry. I I should I was assuming a straight 100 year disconnect. Yeah, but I should notice I've been saying 18 6 eighties I think. But whatever, 18 47 is the date that christians coming from. So it's actually these pioneers are quite pioneering. That's pretty early for that. They are, this is this is pre national railroad, this is pre civil war. This is this is early man. It really is. Oh good point. Yeah. I was talking about the fallout of the civil war, starting the whole cattle thing. But yeah, this way predates that. So uh 49 is the gold rush the first one. Right? So yeah, the I mean yeah it's kind of they are making this journey like pretty much uh one of the early ones.

0:32:17: Yeah, okay. Which makes them more precarious I suppose. Which is maybe wise and you know a tux.

0:32:24: Well yeah, I mean just just leave home and what you got and you know, make it make it work. I want to read, I want to read um Cliff Robertson's nine page treatment now and find out why they had to leave. Ohio so quick.

0:32:39: Maybe these are the mormons. Isn't that what happened? That would that would be a good one to know. Um What's the 18 47? So it's been a little bit too late for uh after joseph smith's adventure. I think, Yeah, I was thinking if maybe they were followers of Aaron burr, maybe something happened there because he got And with some folks in Ohio, um also as he was heading, heading maybe they just don't know. That was still a thing, I guess in 1847. I think that definitely, I think that definitely was um what'd you think of uh what do you think of the doctor? Just go ahead and call in the authorities and saying I'm going to call the authorities. They'll know what to do.

0:33:20: Well, you know, the twilight zone, the real interesting place to start asking that because at least on fifties television, of course you call the authorities even in the sixties. You know, Jack Webb is, you know, pretty hardcore, right? You gotta gotta trust Jack Webb dealing with those damn hippies. Um Damn dirty hippies. Right? So I guess, yeah, I'm sitting here wondering if that's like an iconic statement or just like, of course he's going to call the authorities statement? Yeah, I think, I think that was just sort of like a very sort of mainstream thing to say. I mean, you know, the police would get doctors involved, would get maybe, uh, you know, psychiatrists involved would maybe get electroshock therapists involved, and low botanists involved and those kind of things and and try to help the guy. But I like, you know, christians response was just was just awesome. He was just like, authorities, I don't know what they'll do, I need to get back f the authorities. And I think that was probably the uh, motivation for the N.

0:34:23: W A song that came out 100 and 50 years later or so.

0:34:28: So, yeah, yeah. I mean, he's going out west to get away from the authorities already. So, yeah, that's a good point. And and yeah, the idea of Frontier living is just beyond our minds, you know, it really is, you know, my wife and I watched um 1883, which is the prequel to Taylor Sheridan's um Yellowstone uh television series. And there were folks from europe, and they were trying to get out to Oregon because they were basically giving you free land if you if you settled it, and they were trying to start, you know, start new lives for themselves and they were bringing their blacksmith equipment. They were bringing their furniture, building equipment. Cause these folks were, you know, craftsmen and blacksmiths and, you know, folks that that had a trade had a skill and they wanted to continue that out there. Um, but they couldn't bring it all with them.

0:35:23: And at one point, the guy leading the leading the wagon train said you're not blacksmiths, you're not craftsman, you're not carpenters, you're pioneers and if you don't get used to that idea you're gonna be dead. And I thought that was really eye opening for me. Is that just just making the journey in and of itself was um one against very very very long odds and and number two there's no room to be, you know carrying extra stuff across the ridge and through the winter and you know through the snow and a crossing the, you know the Snake River and things like that. So um yeah it's super hardcore man. It really, really was my family came over and settled in new york. They're like nope, this is it good bad or good, bad and different man, this is where we stay. Yeah. Yeah I think we stuck pretty east coast for the most part.

0:36:20: Well I haven't but Oh yeah but by the time we left it was easy. Yeah exactly. I mean well we have such a safety net modern society don't we? I mean I used to go camping as a boy scout if things go wrong. I mean you might be in the boonies but you can make it to this diner if you you know probably where in the case of this that yeah that diner is not going to be there for at least 100 years. Yeah that's true but I was impressed with how how well, um, Cliff Robertson ran from the diner. I mean he just took off in a big old sprint. Top hat, tails and I thought, and, and they, and he held that sprint for longer than I thought they would on television. Um, I guess, you know, at that time they could give shots a little more time to breathe, you know, with, you know, 28 minutes or so, 25 minutes or so instead of, you know, 20 to. Um, but I was like, he's still running.

0:37:18: I couldn't run that fast that far. And then he kept, and then he kept going. So he was quite a specimen of a man though. Well, I, when I was 15 I went, uh, 1.5, 2 week hike through the New Mexico mountains. And uh, yeah, I was in good shape at the end of that. Just, you know, having to move every day. I'll put you in pretty good shape. He did drop his gun though. So left the future people a souvenir.

0:37:41: And I, and I guess the thing is he was running up the, you know, running back up to across the rim. He fell and the gun went one way and the medicine went the other right idea. So he had, I think the way I, the way I looked at it was, he went for the medicine and took off around and said he would have to go like go back maybe a step or two for the gun that is choosing the good of the one Not to get too many. The gun is probably useful for the, the full crew.

0:38:11: Yeah. But you know, making sure your, your budding young, uh, pediatrician.

0:38:17: See, I learned a new word. Pediatrician is able to save many, many Children from childhood diseases. I mean no one would not make that choice. I think no one would not. That choice seems obvious, but it does. Yeah. I thought the medicine over the gun was a good, was a good choice. And maybe even a good metaphor. I don't, I don't know. I have to put some more thought into that.

0:38:42: And the plastic fabricated plastic jar for the penicillin.

0:38:50: They kind of hide, put the pills in and kind of hide the jar. I don't know he did it. He just, he just gave the wife the whole thing and said, yeah, give him two of these. It should save his life. But if I remember he, he handed handed, uh, handed her the whole, the whole bottle, not, not just two pills.

0:39:06: Hopefully she's sharp enough to, you know, build it out properly. I mean, I'm just going to say maybe the bottle has the instructions on, well maybe they can't read actually. But yeah, that's a good point. Um, well he did read, he was able to read the calendar, read the encyclopedia.

0:39:27: So it might have to, you know, take to whatever per day until until gone. Um Did you, you had mentioned in previous recordings that I've done with you that um you know sometimes they use stock music and sometimes they create new scoring for the episode. Was this was that western music for this? Do you do you know if it was stock or or created I think um sorry, I actually have to look that up. I think this does have a dedicated score, which I just kind of forgot to put my trivia I guess. Um For me though. Yeah, I was kind of like its western music right? So it was very kind of generic western music, but I thought it was very good.

0:40:13: Okay, here let's let's see if featured music.

0:40:17: I don't know what featured music means fred steiner I guess that means they probably got it from a western.

0:40:25: Okay.

0:40:26: You didn't say anything else about the music but is listed as featured music, which to me suggests it was not specifically written for, but it was just, you know, kind of old timey, it's perfectly functional for sure. So yeah, it definitely was. But and upon rewatch I just noticed that it was, it was, it was very smooth, although it was very, very nicely done. So it's at least from the same place it's not like a library grab or something, which a few episodes do have. So gotcha.

0:40:58: Um we found, well season one, you got all those Bernard, well not all those, you have a few real nice Bernard Herrmann scores and this season in particular, a few real nice jerry Goldsmith scores and a little bit of both in each season. But yeah, those two seem to be the guys that really like hit a few out of the park for the twilight zone. Um I could have a look at fred steiner, I'll do that while I ask my first question, which is who in this episode goes through the twilight zone? Oh oh I'm sorry. Uh Yeah, I think you know Rod said right in the uh right in the the prologue when he said uh uh Mr chris horner is going over the top of a rim to look for water and sustenance and in a moment we'll move into the twilight zone. So I'm gonna go with Rods answer and uh say mr christian horn. Okay, how about the people he's around, like his son gets medicine from the twilight zone, He doesn't go there and the future people in this case is the future?

0:42:01: The twilight zone. Do they just kind of do they have involvement? They've met this man from the past with the the doctor wants the authority. So because you could probably flip the script without, you know, too much trouble and start a story with a couple of folks just you know, setting up shop in their new diner out on the desert highway and this, you know man runs in who's confused in a top hat and tails running out of the desert and you know, if you told the story from that perspective um then I think it would be uh then I think would be joe and and uh and his wife that went into the twilight zone as well. So um yeah, I think, I think that is definitely a possibility because they, I would say they met, they all met in the twilight zone.

0:42:54: Yeah, exactly, because they all had weird interactions with strange encounters. So um I can go with that. Uh before I get to my second question, I did I actually fred steiner since you brought the music deserves a little more do and I'm just gonna read straight from wiki for a moment here. Uh The first one, this caught my first steiner wrote the theme music for the Rocky and Bullwinkle Show and Perry Mason, I don't know Perry mason on top of my head, but I definitely have Rocky and Bullwinkle stuck in my head now. And uh he contributed more of the incidental music for T.O. S than any other composer as well as scoring or conducting the music or 29 of the original Star Treks 79 episodes, composed and orchestrated additional music for Star Trek, the motion picture and it was an uncredited composer for return of the Jedi, I get maybe he was like a punch up guy, he, I definitely recognized the name when you said it and now that you bring that up, it's starting starting to kind of fill in, you know, fill in the blanks.

0:43:59: But obviously jerry Goldsmith was, you know, very, very well uh, credited with, with the theme music for star trek, the motion picture, which went on to the next gen.

0:44:11: Um, but to hear that and as well as the, you know, the scoring of the original series which had so much iconic music in it, uh, just used from scene to scene and used in other things like the cable guy that everybody knows that music did he write the fight music is what I need to know how alexander courage is that him? Yeah.

0:44:38: Also known as the best fight team ever. Well, I guess it competes with rocky maybe. I don't know, I don't know the star trek fight music is more aggressive. So it went, yeah, I guess we'll mostly focus on christian horn about does he deserve his trip into the twilight so well, you know, I think he does and I think the reason that he does is because he's, he's leading this group and he's leading not only his wife and his family but um uh the other family also and there was another one where I guess there was some some tragedy of a wagon getting burned and uh people either turning back or or they didn't all make it, I'll just, I'll just say that. Um But I think it's I think it's his vision and it's his um you know leadership that's going to get him out to California and I think his trip into the twilight zone um and his trip uh you know to find medicine and to kind of see what the future holds.

0:45:42: Um I get, I'm going to say he gets to do those things um deservedly so because of his vision and I love the line that he had at the end where you know, again john astin's character ask him what he saw on the other side. Um And I think he just kind of said something like that, it's not much on the other side is there.

0:46:03: And uh chris said oh there's a whole lot on the other side of that room highways and many new things, a whole new land and it was people like us who made it happen and that is or people like us that will make it happen. And that to me is is it gives him that that vision that you need to be a visionary. Um So I think his vision and persistence and maybe a little bit of heat stroke is what made him deservedly take that trip into the twilight zone and not only see what the future has in store but also get to save his son.

0:46:40: Yeah this is definitely one of the twilight zone is being nicer to so on. I mean putting them through their paces for sure, but uh you know, the result is a net positive for him. So, and and he is everyone else is more or less given up in the wagon train. So having sort of a weird mystical, you know? Um Yeah, man, because they've been talking and they've been doing a lot of thinking and they were thinking they're going to turn back, but uh not uh not not cliff Robertson, he's going forward. Did he, did he bring water back for them though? He got some water, He got some water, he got a glass of water, but he found out where the natural spring was though too.

0:47:22: So I guess I guess I don't know how easy it would be to find a natural spring. Like does natural spring, does that mean it like actually like bubbles up and is visible um, and hasn't been visible for the last 114 years. Uh These are all questions I don't know the answer to, but since the boy's name appeared in the encyclopedia, I'm gonna assume they found that natural spring and associated probably small game. I don't know rabbits.

0:47:49: So yeah, that's true. Uh, maybe, yeah, definitely some jackalope out there. Uh, let's throw this onto the triple meter zero being not that trippy five being like, whoa dude, I yeah, I I know and and and I was thinking about this at length and I just, you know, I didn't really find this episode super trippy at all. I mean there's the time travel thing and I was thinking, you know, if I wanted to add a point automatically just for just for time travel, but I sort of feel like this was about a two. Like this was probably a fairly well grounded episode of the twilight zone. I mean, what they showed of the folks in 18 47 seemed realistic and faithful to a faithful recreation. Um you know, thanks in large part to the, you know, the script and the direction and the actors. Um, I feel like what they showed in 1961 was a realistic portrayal of, you know, a roadside diner at that point, it was just sort of connecting those two folks and allowing an individual to see what the, what the rewards of their struggle would be if they just pressed on.

0:49:11: So I didn't find it super trippy, I found it kind of motivating, but I'm gonna give it about it too. Okay, I'll go up to three just because the strains, we're talking about like how he, he doesn't take this on like a stereotype time traveler and he makes you sell situation like, like that to me, just put this on a slightly different path, which I like to see. And I don't even know if I should call that trip penis or not or just maybe smart writing, but you can call it whatever you want. Yeah. Yeah, well I guess just seeing something a little different when, you know, you put on fifties or early sixties schlock sci fi and you know, time travel, they might have like a mechanism for it, but the way everyone acts makes less sense.

0:50:03: I'm sorry. Uh he'll probably need to edit that because I almost gasped when he went, I was stealing one of my co host catch phrase. He likes to just randomly yelling episodes sometimes.

0:50:15: Yeah, no, it was uh yeah, it definitely was uh yeah, 22 to 3 somewhere, I think we're in the same range. Um but if I was going to give it a two and add a point for, for time travel, I think would be, I think we'll be right there.

0:50:29: Right? So definitely a good twilight zone um you know, is a case where there's trickier ones. For example, let's say perchance to dream from the first trip er episode, but this one is better I think. Yeah, that's what I said, I think this is a very good episode, even though it's not super trippy, but but that's the lens I'd like to put these on just for fun, right? So gotta and and also so I can keep talking about a trip odometer. So uh did we, did we hit all your major points before we wrap it up? Oh yeah, I I just, you know, this was a good episode as well acted, I think the, I think it was great that it was out on location, the music, I think was was was greatest on location and then as soon as they wrap their, like people like, hey, do I get to go back to my house in the Hollywood hills now, it's like now we're gonna stay out here and shoot next week's episode.

0:51:20: Yeah, yeah, yeah, but uh sorry to just uh you know, trip up your point, but but yes, a good one. Um the crew did their job. Well let's put it that way, but I, I don't know, I feel like you can kind of feel like if people enjoyed making or something or not most of the time, sometimes there's something very surprising. So um I was just, I was just On a weird rabbit hole looking into the brady bunch, variety hour, you're familiar with this. I am, yeah, because I am actually remember watching an episode of that, one of the few episodes of that live when I was, I don't know, 10.

0:52:05: Yeah, so what was your, Oh, I gotta ask what was your impression when you were a 10?

0:52:10: That this is not good and it won't last Okay, just checking. But the funniest thing is um hearing about robert Reid because he's a pretty stubborn guy, you know, plays mike brady for just for listeners who are not following me. But um for the brady bunch and then later ones, like he hated George Schwartz. Apparently the creator and he just was grumpy. He wasn't in the last episode, the brady bunch because he thought the script was too stupid, you know, and they had to drive like you know, truckloads of money, get him to the reunions and stuff. But he was all in on the variety hour.

0:52:46: He's like, I can't sing or dance, we'll let you sing or dance. He was really, I want to sing and dance and he was like really into it.

0:52:54: He was happy to be there and he wasn't happy to be in any, I mean any other iterations of the brady bunch. Oh my gosh, that's so funny. Yeah.

0:53:04: Um finishing up for today. Uh it actually is next week now. So uh I guess tell us what's up if you got anything going on in your internet steer podcast, fear any of that sort of thing. You know, we talked, we talked a little bit about jerry Goldsmith today and there's an upcoming sci fi five that's going to celebrate the life and career of of jerry Goldsmith. Uh so look forward to that. Um I just got an assignment to cover the minutemen which was 2008 Disney film about time travel. So I'll write the script for that for sci fi five and then Wednesday nights on the Mission log Discord have been doing a rewatch of we're just finishing up season one of the Orville and chatting about the episode as well as mission log the ordeals coverage of that episode, live Wednesday nights at eight eastern in the U.S. Five pacific um and we just get together with a few of our patrons and chat about that each Wednesday night.

0:54:07: So uh if you want to talk about the Orville with us join the mission log uh Patreon at Patreon dot com slash mission log and for as little as a dollar a month you can you know, join the conversation there and as we mentioned before, we do a bit of twilight zone chatting every other sunday evening which is nine Eastern. It's not now is it? Or is this your doing it? This is the off week, we would be doing it now if it was an on week. But yeah actually this time we're recording this is the time that I do this every other week. So um where is it going with that? Oh yes we're also time enough pod on twitter facebook, all of that sort of thing. I think twitter will still be there next week.

0:54:56: Yeah and and yeah we're at m l underscore the Orville on twitter, mission log pod on facebook and Roddenberry podcasts. Um Excuse me podcasts dot roddenberry dot com. Alright well yeah I thought I was going to drag you down to the ground today after all this high flying episodes but you know cliff cliff threw me for a loop because it sounds like you just did a bunch of pilot movies after this. So yeah I think he's you know I think he's a great actor. I mean I really do, I mean his Academy Award winner Emmy Award winner um but played you Hefner in the film Star 80 which sadly tells the story of Dorothy stratten. Um and her and her death Buzz Aldrin, right? Second man on the moon, played shame and batman. So uh I guess he you know wasn't done doing westerns after after this episode of the Twilight Zone and uh what really got me as a former T.W.A. Pilot myself when he played a T.W.

0:55:56: A pilot that was just outstanding to see. So I'm actually a big cliff Robertson fan so I'm glad you asked me to do this episode right on just real quick. Um you mentioned Star 80 and how I became familiar with that was as a maybe 10 or 12 year old.

0:56:16: There's an episode of the issue of the uncanny X men where they kind of riff off it, I just knew that and it was like really confusing for years because I could tell it was based off of something, I had no idea what it was because like it was like by that time 1990 I probably wasn't gonna go run back and and watch Star 80 at that point in time. So it was even readily available at that point in time. Although someone should have told me to watch all that jazz, but whatever.

0:56:42: Yeah, I saw that Bob Fosse did star 82 right?

0:56:47: I think he might have. Okay.

0:56:50: Alright.

0:56:51: Anyway, let's go find out what is over that ridge.

0:56:56: There's quite a bit over that ridge strategies The mirror Me and you know that they hate only behind you.

0:57:27: If you're ever in doubt, you will see that the stream just moves on then.

0:58:09: Mhm.

0:58:14: And and today you see that.

0:59:29: Mhm.

0:59:33: But yeah.

0:59:43: Who down and see that street? Mhm.